Re: Kako pregledati svoje PDF račune kod T-com-a? [T2016112…

Vrh stranice
Privitci:
Poruka kao e-pismo
+ (text/plain)
+ dump_161121_1129_g0n.pcap (application/vnd.tcpdump.pcap)
+ dump_161121_1129_g0n_SSLKEYLOGFILE.txt (text/plain)
+ 418703738.pdf (application/pdf)
+ 424888813.pdf (application/pdf)
+ 431372012.pdf (application/pdf)
+ 435518423.pdf (application/pdf)
+ signature.asc (application/pgp-signature)
Izbriši ovu poruku
Auktor: Miroslav Rovis
Nadnevak:  
To: tehnicka.podrska@t.ht.hr
CC: info
Stari naslovi: Kako pregledati svoje PDF račune kod T-com-a?
Subjekt: Re: Kako pregledati svoje PDF račune kod T-com-a? [T201611210376]
The translation in English (of most of the Croatian text) can be found
in the bottom half, from the string "ENGLISH TRANSLATION"

Ovo je drugi T-com-ov "odgovor" *Tehničke podržke*:

On 161123-21:22+0100, wrote:
>
> Poštovani,
> provjerili smo dostupne PDF-ove koji su kreirani za Vaše račune te smo
> iste otvorili putem Adobe PDF reader programa. Ljubazno Vas molimo da
> pokušate Vaše račune pogledati sa navedenim programom ili bilo kojim
> programom sličnih karakteristika. Nažalost nemamo uvid u razlog iz
> kojeg PDF-ove ne možete otvoriti putem qpdfview funkcija. Ukoliko
> niste u mogućnosti preuzeti iznad navedeni program ili bilo koji njemu
> sličan tada Vas molimo da pokušate PDF otvoriti sa nekim od drugih
> dostupnih programa na UNIX sustavima.
> Srdačan pozdrav.
>
>
> S poštovanjem,
>
>
>
> Dejan
>
> HRVATSKI TELEKOM d.d.
>
>
> Agent za e-korisničku podršku
> Odjel e-poslovanja
> Odsjek za e-korisničku podršku
> Adresa: Roberta Frangeša Mihanovića 9, 10110 Zagreb
> E-mail: ( mailto:tehnicka.podrska@t.ht.hr )
> Facebook ( http://www.facebook.com/HrvatskiTelekom ) Twitter (
> https://twitter.com/hrvatskitelekom ) Instagram (
> https://www.instagram.com/hrvatski.telekom/ ) Google+ (
> https://plus.google.com/b/106401043936944637172/106401043936944637172/posts )
> YouTube ( http://www.youtube.com/user/HrvatskiTelekom )
> www.hrvatskitelekom.hr ( http://www.hrvatskitelekom.hr )
>
> ŽIVJETI ZAJEDNO
>
> Lakše pratite potrošnju i upravljajte uslugama...preuzmite novu Moj
> Telekom aplikaciju! *Android (
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hrvatskitelekom.m.mojT&hl=hr
> )* *iOS (
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/moj-telekom-hr/id1076967450?mt=8)*
>


Sliedeći prikaz nije za Tehničku podržku, nego je on ovdje zato da, ako
mi ista doista ne bude pružila podržku, mogu dokumentirano prikazati
HAKOM-u koliko je doista potrebno da... *dobijem na pregled svoje PDF
račune kod T-com-a*, Ovaj prikaz je od "ZA HAKOM" do "ZA HAKOM KRAJ".

Tehnička podržko, *ne tražim* od vas odgovor na tekst koji sam pripravio
za HAKOM, ne za vas. Molim vas, preskočite ga, pa mi odgovorite na
pitanja koja ću upraviti vama.

=============== "ZA HAKOM" ===============
HAKOM, molim vas, dokle se mora tolerirati ovakvo kršenje mojih
koristničkih prava?

On se zapravo pojavio u biednom, is perspective svjeta gledajući, vrlo
ružnom protu-standardnom, iznimno zastarjelom prikazu:

http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161123.202217.4d8bf90a.en.html

Slied razprave je, kao i obično, hotimično prekinut od strane T-com-a,
brisanjem In-Reply-To uzglavlja ("header"-a), koji nastaje pri
odgovaranju iz Messag-ID uzglavlja izvorne poruke, čime T-com hotimično
čini razpravu da uporabim tu rieč "razasutom". Naime, normalne razprave
izgledaju ovako:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/mutt/lurker/thread/20161003.135651.fc40776e.en.html#i20161003.135651.fc40776e
ili ovako:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cinelerra/gg/thread/20160430.120129.3b77a048.en.html#i20160430.120129.3b77a048
Zna se točno tko je kada kome odgovarao i na koju temu.

Ipak, donekle boljem uvidu u razpravu, u ovom trenutku može nadam se
pomoći ova manualna rekonstrukcija:

Prvo moje e-pismo:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161121.130814.681e4a53.en.html
(ono je najbitnije dosad za rješavanje problema i utvrđivanje zapravo
težkog prekršaja ugovornih obveza od strane T-com-a prema meni, iz zapravo
poveznice koju ono sadrži:
T-cogne and PDF?
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/
Tu se vidi jasno, stručnjaku podpuno bjelodano, ali i laiku prilično
razvidno, da T-com težko krši moja prava kao koristnika)

Moje drugo e-pismo:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161121.133210.a141225d.en.html
(koje pripada drugoj, više puta susretnutoj temu u mojoj korespondenciji
s T-com-om, i koju su niže navedeni mudraci uporabili za zapravo
odvraćanje od rješavanja problema)

Prvi "odgovor" *Tehničke podržke* (koji je proslieđeni odgovor
Koristničke službe a ne Tehničke podržke!):
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161121.164300.b331e46d.en.html
(Čini se da su neki mudraci iz Tehničke podržke hotimično prosliedili
djelatnici (alias-ime) "Jasmini" --vjerovatno studentici-- iz obične
Koristničke podržke samo moje drugo e-pisno. Sada tek dolazim do
zaključka da je vjerovatno tako bilo, njoj je naime podpuno promakao bit
problema)

Moj pokušaj vraćanja na rješavanje problema odgovaranjem "Jasmini":
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161121.175806.8123dcd1.en.html

na Što se loptica vraća u Tehničku podržku, koja šalje odgovor pri vrhu
ovog e-pisma prikazanom u prihvatljivom formatu, ali je on izvorno u
T-com-ovom redovitom bolestnom formatu:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161123.202217.4d8bf90a.en.html
=============== "ZA HAKOM KRAJ" ===============


Dejan, dakle iz T-com-a, piše kako:
> provjerili smo dostupne PDF-ove koji su kreirani za Vaše račune te smo
> iste otvorili putem Adobe PDF reader programa.

To je nejasna tvdnja. Koji su to dostupni PDF-ovi? Oni koji su meni dati
u 4 minutice konverzacije sa:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/
nisu mogli biti nikome i nikakvom PDF-čitaču dostupni.

Naravno, ako ste iz vaše datoteke pregledali i otvarali te kreirane
dokumente, onda su oni savršeno mogli biti vama dostupni, ali ja vas ne
pitam može li T-com kreirati izpravne dokumente, nego je li meni u toj
4-minutnoj konverzaciji T-com te dokumente učinio dostupnima, pozor: je
li ih *u toj konverzaciji* *meni* učinio dostupnima?

Na stranici:
T-cogne and PDF?
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/
nalaze se sve dokumentirane konverzacije ("conversations") između mojeg
računala i vašeg poslužitelja, te službi u svietu koje za vas vrše
praćenje, "tracking", i ostale povezane, "related" konverzacije.

Ma evo vam tog mrežnog traga i u privitku ovog e-pisma:
dump_161121_1129_g0n.pcap

Isti je uvelike bezkoristan bez SSL-ključeva koji ga dekriptiraju, još
jedan privitak:
dump_161121_1129_g0n_SSLKEYLOGFILE.txt

Sve je moguće provjeriti, a ako snimate trace-ove prilikom posjeta vaših
koristnika, onda vaši vlastiti SSL-ključevi koji će dekriptirati te
konverzacije u podpunosti se poklapaju, identični su, sa ključevima koje
upravo privinuh, povrh što sam ranije dao poveznicu na moju novu
stranicu o tom predmetu, a sve podudarno s vrjemenom tog mog 4-minutnog
boravka na https://moj.hrvatskitelekom.hr .

Jeste li vi pregledali materiale, koji, za IT-stručnjaka jednostavniji
ne mogu ni biti, a koji su popisani u datoteci:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/ls-1
?

Nitko ne poriče da je T-com kreirao i negdje ima izpravne PDF-ove. Ja
međutim, ne da pokazujem, nego za i bilo kakvog polu-stručnjaka
dokazujem, jednostavnim objavljivanjem točno onih mrežnih konverzacija,
"network conversations" i točno onih prikaza na zaslonu ("screencast"-a)
koji su se dogodili, da ti PDF-ovi iz konverzacija mojeg računala sa
vašim poslužiteljem nisu bili stavljeni meni na preuzimanje, nego su mi
dati na preuzimanje nekakvi batrljci.

Nije upitno ima li T-com PDF datoteke, nego zašto ih *meni* nije stavio
na razpolaganje, u SSL-kriptiranoj konverzaciji, gdje moje računalo nema
mogućnosti mienjati sadržaj koji mi T-com šalje. T-com sada ne može
tvrditi da konverzacija nije bila točno tog objelodanjenog sadržaja.

Neporecivost, "non-repudiation", kriptirane konverzacije je bitna
značajka u kriptografiji, dragi T-com-e...

Zar vi dosta pokušavate tvrditi da:

U toj konverzaciji između mojeg računala i vašeg poslužitelja vaš
poslužitelj nije meni poslao ove datoteke, prilikom klikanja na
poveznice "Račun PDF", kojih ima, prema klikanim poveznicama ove četiri:

-rw-r--r-- 1 48499 2016-11-21 11:30 418703738.pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 43358 2016-11-21 11:30 424888813.pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 48585 2016-11-21 11:31 431372012.pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 48347 2016-11-21 11:31 435518423.pdf

Je l' to vi tvrdite da u toj konverzaciji meni vaš poslužitelj nije
predao na mog računala zahtjev (klikanjem na te poveznice), točno te 4
datoteke?

Ako to tvrdite, onda vas molim, demonstrirajte koje se to datoteke mogu
iz te konverzacije izvući, uz pomoć javno dostupnih alata poput Tshark-a
(koji se izporučuje s Wireshark-om), koji je inače u svietu
najzastupljeniji za analizu mrežnih konverzacija, "network
conversations" ili "network traces", koje su redovito datoteke s
ekstenzijom .pcap ili .pcapng.

Molim vas, izvucite uz pomoć Tshark-a i dajte mi tu čarobnu komandnu
liniju koja to može, te "druge" PDF datoteke, a ne ove koje sam ja
snimio, ako je u toj konverzaciji meni vaš poslužitelj poslao pri mojem
klikanju na poveznice "Račun PDF" neke druge a ne te privinute datoteke!

Ili to ne tvrdite, nego dakle prihvaćate da je T-com meni predao u tim
konverzacijama točno te 4 datoteke, ali tvrdite da te četiri datoteke
možete pootvarati vašim bajnim Acrobat Readerom?

Je li to možda tvrdite?

Vjerujem da ne možete imati toliko nizku razinu znanja i pameti da to
tvrdite. Ali...
> Ljubazno Vas molimo da
> pokušate Vaše račune pogledati sa navedenim programom ili bilo kojim
> programom sličnih karakteristika. Nažalost nemamo uvid u razlog iz
> kojeg PDF-ove ne možete otvoriti putem qpdfview funkcija. Ukoliko
> niste u mogućnosti preuzeti iznad navedeni program ili bilo koji njemu
> sličan tada Vas molimo da pokušate PDF otvoriti sa nekim od drugih
> dostupnih programa na UNIX sustavima.
> Srdačan pozdrav.

...Ali, čitajući gornje, čini se da vi ili to, ili ono prvo tvrdite...
Dakle, tvrdite da je ili:

1) meni T-com u te 4 minutice poslao neke druge datoteke, a ne te 4
datoteke

ili:

2) da jest meni T-com poslao u te 4 minutice te 4 datoteke, ali da su
one izpravne i da ih vi možete bajnim Acrobat Reader-om otvoriti...

Ako ipak, dakle, to drugo tvrdite, dakle ako ove datoteke, ma evo vam ih
i u ovoj e-poruci, da jest T-com meni te datoteke poslao i da ih vi
možete otvoriti...

Ma evo vam ih i u ovoj e-poruci, molim, preuzmite privitke, snimite ih
si negdje, objavite ih i vi svima, da svi mogu vježbati svoje bajne
Acrobat Reader-e! (šifra: nek se vidi razkoš!):

418703738.pdf
424888813.pdf
431372012.pdf
435518423.pdf

Dakle ako tvrdite da te datoteke možete otvoriti Acrobat Readerom, onda
mi, molim vas, dajte to dokažite nekakvom tehnički-provjerljivom
metodom, kao što ja dokazujem što se zbilo u te 4 minutice network
trace-om i screencast-m...

Jer ako vi te datoteke možete otvoriti, mislim da ste promienili zakone
fizike, pa da ste dakle čudotvorac!

> S poštovanjem,
>


Tek jedna stvar u vezi gornjeg obraćanja. Odnosi li se gornje možda ne
na sliedećeg, ne znam:
> Dejan


Očito je da je u T-com-u dosta otrovna atmosfera u mnogim milieur-ima...
(srbski: "miljeima"), pa ako je njegov šef zapravo, ili netko drugi
iznad, "zaslužan" za te slavne redke "odgovora" *Tehničke podržke*, onda
mu šef, ili taj netko drugi iznad u hijerarhiji, a ne on treba biti
proglašen novim Einsteinom, a uz to i čudotvorcem, a ne Dejan, ili
"Dejan" (ako je to alias)...

Naime, u takvim sredinama netko iznad u hijerarhiji šalje na tebe nekog
običnog radnika, a pravi kreator problema, ili kasnijeg ne-rješavanja
problema, je isti taj netko tko se nije ni podpisao...

Jeste li uobće dekriptirali network trace koji sam objelodanio na:

> T-cogne and PDF?
> http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/

?

Ne ćete mi reć da tako stručnih nema u T-com-u koji bi to znali?... Mah!
2,000 programera u T-com-u, i da nitko to ne zna, sa datotekama koje su
u direktoriju -- koji je ta stranica, dekriptirati? To mi ne možete reć!

Nemojte me razočarati! Valjda ovo donje još uviek vriedi:
On 161121-14:08+0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
> Moje štovanje!
>
> Niste neznalice, dogodilo se, ovaj dokumentirani slučaj, prije nekih
> dva i kusur sahata
> (
> aahh... događalo se više puta, i samo jedan od tih puta sam
> poveznicom napomenuo...
> )
> ... [događalo se više puta] da šalje meni T-com batrljke pod PDF
> dokumente.
>
> [Niste neznalice], naprotiv, dosta ih je među vama programmer-ima
> T-com-a koji znate (i puno) više nego ja, pa, ne bih stvarno očekivao
> da biste se okuražili reći mi da je kvar u mojem mrežnom pregledniku
> ili PDF-pregledniku.
>
> Molim vas rješite ovo, i javite mi da je rješeno:
>
> T-cogne and PDF?
> http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/
>
> A poštenim djelatnicima T-com-a se izpričavam na uporabi nadimka
> umjesto imena vaše tvrdke na toj stranici (samo poštenima se
> izpričavam za to).
>
> Rješite ovo, pa ne želite valjda dopustiti da neki čudni vaši
> uposlenici, kakve bi doista trebalo lustrirati, ovako ukakuju službene
> dokumente!? Prečesto se ovo događalo, i u presudnim trenutcima a da bi
> bilo slučajna pogrješka, propust, "omaška"...
>
> Svako dobro!


Na kraju ovog teksta na Hrvatskom, samo napomena: ukoliko bude
ozbiljnijih neizpravnih ili "mrtvih" poveznica, molim da se pričeka
izpravak u mojoj sliedećoj e-poruci. Naime, da bih je praktički skoro
istodobno poslao i postavio na:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/
i sve hash'irao i podpisao, moram neke tehničke pojedinosti predvidjeti,
a nisam čarobnjak, a eto neki novi Eisteini umjesto da pomažu, a primaju
i moje novce da bi pomogli, oni otežavaju.

Pa te, ljubezni čtioče, molim da zamietiš: *moguće je* da ću savjetovati
da radije čitaš revidiranu, sliedeću, e-poruku, sa istim sadržajem kao i
ova, ali izpravljenih pogrješaka, u slučaju da se pokaže da nisam te
pojedinosti točno predvidio.



=============== ENGLISH TRANSLATION ===============
This is the second T-com's "reply" from *Technical support*:

On 161123-21:22+0100, wrote:
>
> Respectable,
> we checked the available PDFs which were created for your bills and
> we opened them by means of the Adobe PDF reader program. We kindly ask
> you to try and view your bills with the aforesaid program or with any
> other program of similar features. Unfortunately we have no insight in
> the causes for which you can not open those PDFs by means of the
> qpdfview's functionalities. In case that you are unable to download
> the aforementioned program or any other of such kind then we kindly
> ask you to try and open the PDF with some other of the available
> programs on UNIX systems.
> Cordial salutes,
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
> Dejan
>
> HRVATSKI TELEKOM d.d.
>

...[cut]...
>


The following is not for the Technical support department, but [..] for
the HAKOM (Croatian Agency for Telecommunications, the supervising
body), From "FOR HAKOM" to "FOR HAKOM END".

Technical support department, *do not reply* to this, but jump further
below to questions that I address to you.

=============== "FOR HAKOM" ===============
HAKOM, pls., how long more does this stamping on my users' rights has to
be tollerated?

What a pitiful format of the original email:

http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161123.202217.4d8bf90a.en.html

Intentionally the thread is ruined by T-com, by erasing the In-Reply-To
header which is regularly created by simple replying from the Message-ID
header of the original message, so the thread is intentionally
scattered. Normal threads look like this:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/mutt/lurker/thread/20161003.135651.fc40776e.en.html#i20161003.135651.fc40776e
or this:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cinelerra/gg/thread/20160430.120129.3b77a048.en.html#i20160430.120129.3b77a048
It gets to be clear who replied to whom when and on what subject.

But, to get a somewhat better possibility of insight into the
discussion, I hope manual reconstruction might be of some help:

Prvo moje e-pismo:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161121.130814.681e4a53.en.html
(the most essential so far for the solving of the problem and confirming
of the serious breach of Agreement obligations on the part of T-com
towards me, can be found in, actually the link within that email:
T-cogne and PDF?
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/
which is in English, so translation of that link is needed...

The second e-mail:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161121.133210.a141225d.en.html
( less important )

The first "reply" of the *Technical support department*:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161121.164300.b331e46d.en.html
( less important )

My attempt to get back to solving the issue:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161121.175806.8123dcd1.en.html

And the (latest at this time) reply:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/message/20161123.202217.4d8bf90a.en.html
which I translated near the top of this English translation part of this
email (some 70 lines above, in good Mailing Agents).
=============== "FOR HAKOM END" ===============


So, Dejan, from T-com, writes that:
> we checked the available PDFs which were created for your bills and
> we opened them by means of the Adobe PDF reader program.

The statement is not clear. Which are those available PDFs? Those that
were given to me in the 4 minutes of the conversation at:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/
could not have been to anybody and to no PDF-viewer available.

Of course, if you, from your database, found and opened those
created documents, then those could have perfectly been available to
you, but I'm not asking you whether T-com is able to create accurate
documents, rather I am asking you whether T-com, in that 4-minute
conversation made those documents available to me, attention: whether
T-com made *in that conversation* available those documents *to me*?

On the page:
T-cogne and PDF?
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/
there can be found documented the conversations between my computer and
your server, and the services in the world that do the tracking for you,
and other related conversations.

But there you go, here it is for you, the network trace in the
attachment to this email as well:
dump_161121_1129_g0n.pcap

However the trace itself would be hugely useless without the SSL-keys
for decrypting it, another attachment:
dump_161121_1129_g0n_SSLKEYLOGFILE.txt

All of that can be verified, and if you record traces during your
users' visits, then your own SSL-keys which will decryot those
conversations of my 4-minute visit compare fully, are identical to the
keys that I just gave, on top of linking to my new page on the issue
previously, all corresponding to the time of those 4 little minutes of
my stay at https://moj.hrvatskitelekom.hr .

Have you analyzed those materials, which, for an IT-technician couldn't
be simpler, and which are listed in the file:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/ls-1
?

Nobody denies that T-com created and has the correct PDFs stored
somewhere. But however, I do not just demostrate, I proove for even a
mediocre technician, and with a simple publication of exactly those
network conversations and exactly those screencasts that happened, how
the PDFs in those conversations of my computer with your server were not
made available to me for downloading, but how there were made available
to me some worthless stubs instead.

It is out of question that T-com has those PDF files, it does have them
in its possession, but the question is why it did not made those PDFs
available *to me*, in the SSL-encrypted conversation, where my computer
has no means to alter the content of what T-com is sending to it. T-com
can not now claim that the conversation did not contain exactly the
published content.

The non-repudiation of the encrypted conversation is an essential
feature in cryptography, dear T-com...

Are you really trying to say that:

In that conversation between my computer and your server, your server
did not send these files to me, upon my clicking on the links "Račun
PDF" ("PDF bill" in Croatian), of which there are, after the clicked
links, these four of them:

-rw-r--r-- 1 48499 2016-11-21 11:30 418703738.pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 43358 2016-11-21 11:30 424888813.pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 48585 2016-11-21 11:31 431372012.pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 48347 2016-11-21 11:31 435518423.pdf

Really you claiming that in that conversation your server did not send
to me, upon my computer's request (by my clicking on those links),
exactly those 4 files?

If that is what you are claiming, then please, demonstrate to me which
files can be recovered from that conversation, by means of publicly
available tools like Tshark (which is delivered with the Wireshark
program), which is generally the most used tool in the world for network
conversations or traces analysis, which files are usually with the .pcap
or .pcapng extension.

Please, get those out with Tshark, and give that magical command line to me
which can do that, if in that conversation your server sent to me, upon
my clicking of those "PDF Bill" links some other, and not those attached
files!

Or you don't claim that, but instead you accept that T-com did send to
me in those conversations exactly those 4 files, but you claim that
those 4 files, you can open all of them with your fabulous Acrobat
Reader?

Is maybe that what you claim?

I believe that you can not have such low level of knowledge and insight
to claim so. But...
> we checked the available PDFs which were created for your bills and
> we opened them by means of the Adobe PDF reader program. We kindly ask
> you to try and view your bills with the aforesaid program or with any
> other program of similar features. Unfortunately we have no insight in
> the causes for which you can not open those PDFs by means of the
> qpdfview's functionalities. In case that you are unable to download
> the aforementioned program or any other of such kind then we kindly
> ask you to try and open the PDF with some other of the available
> programs on UNIX systems.

...But, reading the above, it appears that you claim either that or the
former...

So, you claim that either:

1) T-com in those 4 minutes sent to me some other files, and not those 4
files

or:

2) that T-com did send to me in those 4 minutes those 4 files, but that
they are completely accurate and that you are able to open them with you
fabulous Acrobat Reader...

So in case you claim the latter, in other words if these files, oh well,
there you go, here they are for you in this email as well, that T-com
did send to me these files and that you are able to open them...

So here they are for you in this very email as well, pls. save them
somewhere for you, and publish them for everybody to access them, so
that everybody can practice their fabulous Acrobat Readers! (the
buzzword: ah such ostentatious luxury!):

418703738.pdf
424888813.pdf
431372012.pdf
435518423.pdf

So if you claim that those files you are able to open with Acrobat
Reader, then pls, do proove it with some method that can be technically
evaluated and ascertained, like I prove what happened in those 4 little
minutes with the network trace and the screencast...

Because if you are able to open those files, then I hold that you have
changed the laws of physics, and that you are a miracle man!

> S poštovanjem,
>


Just one more thing with regard to my address above. Whether the above
applies to this one or not, I do not know:
> Dejan


It is clear that in T-com the athmosphere is pretty poisoned in many
walks... And if his boss or someone else up in the hierarchy is the one
responsible for those glorious lines of the "reply" of the *Technical
support department*, then his boss, and not himself needs to be declared
the new Einstein, and a miracle man at that, and not Dejan (pronounced
approximately: Dayan, like in the word day, not night) or "Dejan" (if
that is an alias)...

Namely in such environments often somebody higher in the hierarchy
dispatches on you some simpler employee, and the real creator of the
problem, or later of the not solving of the problem, is the same that
one somebody who never ever signed his name down anywhere...

Have you even decrypted the network trace which I published at:

> T-cogne and PDF?
> http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/

?

You don't want to tell me that so expert people in T-com there are none
who would know how to do that?... Aarghh! 2.000 programmers there are in
T-com, and that nobody knows how to do the, with the files that are in
that directory -- which is that page, decrypting of that? You can't say
that to me!

Do not disappoint me! I hope that the below is still accurate:
On 161121-14:08+0100, Miroslav Rovis wrote:
> My regards!
>
> You are not a bunch of ignorants, so this happened, this documented
> case, maybe some just a little over two hours ago
> (
> aahh... this has happened several times, and I gave a link to only
> one of those several times...
> )
> ... [it happened several times] that T-com sends to me worthless stubs
> under guise of PDF documents.
>
> [You are not a buch of ignorants], to the contrary, there are among
> you T-com's programmers such who know (even much) more than I do, and
> so I wouldn't really expect that you would summon the courage to claim
> that the issue is in my browser or the PDF-viewer.
>
> Pls. solve this, and let me know when it has been solved:
>
> T-cogne and PDF?
> http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cap/cap-161121-t-cogne-pdf/
>
> And to the honest workers at T-com, I apologize for my use of the
> nickname instead of the name of the firm on that page (only to the
> honest I apologize for that). NOTE: T-cogne in Croatian pronounces the
> same as it pronounces in English, but the pronounciation would
> generally be written as T-konj (which is pronounced T-cogne, for my
> Western readers), which means T-horse, and horse as an appellative to
> some person, is used to say how that person is stupid.
>
> Solve this, you don't want to let some strange employees of yours, who
> really should be lustrated (in post communist countries like Croatia,
> which was part of former mass-killer Tito's yugoslavia, post
> communists of the worse kind are the rulers in the shadows, doing all
> kinds of damage to the country; they ought to be lustated, Latin:
> lustratio, shining light on a place, making truth known about someone,
> some group), [you don't want to let some strange employees of yours,
> who really should be lustrated] poo on official documents like this!?
>
> Too often this has happened, and in such decisive moments, for this to
> be claimed an accidental mistake of some kind...
>
> Everything best!


At the end of this text in English, just a note: should there be more
seriously inaccurate or "dead" links, please bear with me till I send
the correction in my next e-mail. Namely, to be able to, practically
almost at the same time, send it and post it at:
http://www.croatiafidelis.hr/foss/cenz/iskon-tcom-mr/
having hash'ed and signed all of it, I have to foresee some technical
details, and I'm not a wizard, while, you see, some new Eisteins instead
of helping, and they get my moneys so they would, they make it more
difficult instead.

So pls., gentle reader, note: *it is possible* that you will be advised
to read the *revised, next, email*, with the same content as this one
but with errors corrected, in case this one shows to have had those
details not foreseen accurately by me.

=============== ENGLISH TRANSLATION END ===============

--
Miroslav Rovis
Zagreb, Croatia
http://www.CroatiaFidelis.hr
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